Death Magic isnt that good? - Guild Wars Forums

Multifaros · Jul 01, 2005, 09:50 AM // 09:50

I've been playing with my N/E for a while now, lvl 10 this far.

I have full Blood Magic, and tried som death magic too. I realised that Death Magic isnt very good, specally not in PvP, when you havent got many corpses.

So should i carry on with blood magic? I put some on soul reaping and curses too, i like them. Thats basicly what i put my stats on, nothing on E stuff this far.

Btw, N/E is nice.

Warlawk · Jul 01, 2005, 10:06 AM // 10:06

at higher levels, once the going starts to get tough.... a good blood necro is invaluable. having a small horde of minions to keep the mobs busy while your group rips them apart makes things SOOOOOOOO much easier. i cant comment on pvp, as i havent played one, only played alongside one. an area which is ridiculously hard without a minion necro, becomes easy with one.

Laizness · Jul 01, 2005, 10:12 AM // 10:12

Death necros can be nice in pvp, putrid explosion is a devastating skill as well as death nova. Minions can be helpful although i personally don't believe in them for pvp.

Multifaros · Jul 01, 2005, 10:15 AM // 10:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by Warlawk

at higher levels, once the going starts to get tough.... a good blood necro is invaluable. having a small horde of minions to keep the mobs busy while your group rips them apart makes things SOOOOOOOO much easier. i cant comment on pvp, as i havent played one, only played alongside one. an area which is ridiculously hard without a minion necro, becomes easy with one.

Sry, what do you mean with Blood Necros is invaluable. Didnt get that. Are they bad?

So what about fifty fifty, half death and half blood? I need to be good at guild battles. Or, i want to.

kyrell · Jul 01, 2005, 10:17 AM // 10:17

I am an N/E but Blood and Fire

and both max and some runes and I use well of blood so the corpse just needed for something. And well of power is better but needs longer casting time and longer recharge

.

p/s: Anyone knows when I type wop in GW they showed ---

silvertemplar · Jul 01, 2005, 10:19 AM // 10:19

In PvE it is great under the right conditions. But generally you can not fully go Death Magic due to the conditional corpse required AND the fact that you are fighting alot of undead which not only do not leave corpses but are also immune to disease/poison etc [also mostly under death magic].

I have found if i DO have a corpse very few spells beats what Death Magic can pull off. Even Soul Feast [self healing] is one heck of a scary healing spell. So i wouldn't underestimate it, i usually check the general area + mobs i will fight and then put more or less attribs in my Death Magic depending on whether i will get corpses.

As for curses, in PvP i think there's some great stuff, but in PvE i foud [espcially later on] mobs just remove them over and over nullifying the whole point of it.

Enigmatics · Jul 01, 2005, 02:26 PM // 14:26

Invaluable means valuable... As for devoted minion masters, either go ranger or monk secondaries. Ranger for the pet that you can have die and grant you corpses, monk so you can heal your minions. That way you *can* go pure death magic. Of course only the NON premade minion masters don't suck; they happen to be minor gods in pve, and can do well in pvp, providing you have a monk with healing seed.

Cap'n Hoek · Jul 01, 2005, 04:28 PM // 16:28

Don't neglect curses, I find them very useful when I've stacked them up on my foes.

RMThompson · Jul 01, 2005, 04:31 PM // 16:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by Enigmatics

Invaluable means valuable... .

Well invaluable actually means having incalcuable or inestimatable value, or priceless.

But yeah, its a good thing he's saying.

*Note - I don't agree that they are invaluable, but I figured I would correct the error anyway.

Tony Blair · Jul 01, 2005, 04:34 PM // 16:34

A death necro can be very very good in PvP. Putrid Explosion, Rotting Flesh, Tainted Flesh..

Saya · Jul 01, 2005, 05:05 PM // 17:05

I have a death necro with most points in death and some in blood, and it's a hell lot of fun playing that one in PvE.
If there's a monk in the team, then I usually stick close to that one and use Blood Ritual on him 24/7, so that (s)he doesn't run out of energy. It's interesting that teams often compliment the monk for his excellent healing skills then

On the Death Magic side, I usually equip the putrid explosion & rotting flesh. Putrid explosion can be a life saver, when the warrior/team gets swarmed by too many mobs, then all you need to do is wait for the first corpse to drop and then it's usually putrid spamming till the last one hits the ground.
Rotting flesh is neat for any kind of regen monster or for groups that are out of reach, so that you can drain them slowly but to the end.

I don't use minion skills anymore, since the ascension, as they are hard to control and can aggro the wrong group at the wrong time.

Warlawk · Jul 01, 2005, 05:45 PM // 17:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by Saya

I don't use minion skills anymore, since the ascension, as they are hard to control and can aggro the wrong group at the wrong time.

hte point i was trying to make is that you dont want 2 or 3 minnions running around aggroing.... you want 10+ of the damn things running around soaking up half the monsters that attack you. for really unpleasant encounters, its the difference between life and death.

Plommon · Jul 01, 2005, 05:47 PM // 17:47

Well the best necro id say would be blood.
especially when you have both life siphon and life transfer in your rack.
Life siphon gives enemy health degeneration of 3 and myself heaqlth regeneration of 3 for 24 seconds, if you then add life transfer it gives enemy 8 degeneration and yourself 8 regenaration for 12 seconds.
they stack and give you maximum regeneration at all times

These skills recharge pretty quickly so when youve put them on one guy you move on to the next. After that you just start pounding with life stealing attacks like vampiric gaze- and touch and the enemy will be dead before they can say OMG while you still have 100% hp!

P.S Stats on the skills are when you have 16 points bloodmagic

Enigmatics · Jul 01, 2005, 06:00 PM // 18:00

I know the textbook definition of invaluable, but I disagree that such a build is actually invaluable persei. They're useful though, no doubt. I've had numerous life transfers put on me... I use remove hex and laugh. Keeping in mind that there are always counters for hexes and general skills, minion masters have hard times being countered, unless you disrupt their summoning.

Ensign · Jul 01, 2005, 06:51 PM // 18:51

A Death Necro is about as neccessary in a tombs group as your 3 monks. Either you run Putrid Explosion and fight over the corpses, or you will lose to it.

Peace,
-CxE

Enigmatics · Jul 01, 2005, 06:57 PM // 18:57

Can't vouch for minion masters' success in arenas though.

Kali Ma · Jul 01, 2005, 07:43 PM // 19:43

Quote:

I realised that Death Magic isnt very good, specally not in PvP, when you havent got many corpses.

/sigh

Allies are corpses too. At high levels, all it takes is one corpse to be effective, if one knows what they're doing. I'm a N/Mo with 14 Death Magic, so let me share a few points here, which are applicable to both PvE and PvP...

Vengeance... when/if an ally dies, raise a bone horror from them and then cast Vengeance to bring them back to life. After 30 seconds, they are a guaranteed corpse that can be used to create another bone horror, as well as giving you guaranteed energy through Soul Reaping. The party member has full health/energy for 30 seconds, so can immediately get back into the fray, and there is no death penalty incurred when raised with Vengeance.

Death Nova + Taste of Death... this turns minions into walking time bombs with a trigger switch that heal. The conventional way of using Death Nova is to try and monitor the minions and cast it when they are close to dying. However, if one casts Death Nova immediately after raising them, then keeps them targetted until they get close in to the creature, then the master can trigger Taste of Death on them, which kills them instantly. At lvl 14 DM, this gives the master 380 health immediately, and does 96 damage plus poisoning for a significant duration to all surrounding foes. It's likely that another corpse will show up after doing that.

Healing Seed... cast this on a high level Bone Horror that runs in with the Tanks, or when they're next to the spellcasters, and monks will love you for it. Combined with the Death Nova + Taste of Death strategy described above, it can be quite effective.

Heal Area... in PvE, this is great for keeping an army of minions alive, since they always group around you after/before any encounter. Cast it after to keep them going until the next battle, and before sending them in. In long stretches of no enemies or corspes, just stop for a second and heal them. It's ok for Necros to be in the back, and helps keep the minions from aggroing the wrong mobs accidentally.

Don't be afraid to die... if there is more than one Necro in a group and at least one of them has Vengeance or an infinite Res spell, then have one of them use health sacrificing skills or a vampiric weapon and die when there isn't a corpse around. If both have res and one of the Verata's line of minion stealer spells, this approach can be used to create lots of minions when there are no corpses. It can also be used to create a corpse for Putrid Explosion, Necrotic Transveral, any of the Well Of... line of spells, etc. One Necro runs into the middle of the largest group and kills themself, then the other uses their corpse and raises them with Vengeance.

Remember... Vengeance has an off switch.

And finally, high level horrors are smarter than most people think they are. Depending on the master's postioning, they will not attack unless the master does first. I can cast spells indefinitely, and as long as I don't actually attack with my weapon, the minions will just stand beside me even in the most heated battles. And they move toward the enemies quite intelligently, if one watches them closely. If I follow a target called, that's where they go. If a creature is close to dying and doesn't need their help, they will stop heading that way and move toward the next one. If several creatures break off and head for the spellcasters, the minions will pause and change direction to intercept them. When I have more than 4 or 5 with me, usually one will hang back beside me for a bit before following the others... if during that time I choose a second attack target, like the creature who broke off and is going for the monk, then that's where the final horror will head to.

Bottom line is, if minions are constantly aggroing the wrong mobs or are getting in the way, look to the master not the minions. The master has more control of them than may be apparent on the surface, based on their own targeting practices and postitioning within the party.

Grenth watch over your soul...

Kali Ma · Jul 01, 2005, 07:49 PM // 19:49

Quote:

A Death Necro is about as neccessary in a tombs group as your 3 monks. Either you run Putrid Explosion and fight over the corpses, or you will lose to it.

I can't speak for Tombs, but in general with the Bloodstained Boots (increases casting speed on corpses) and specific weapons that increase casting speed with Death Magic (+20% chance) - combined with good timing and skill choice - it's possible to outcast most foe necros when it comes to corpses, whether enemy AI or real players. That Warlock or high level Blood Magic Necro can't do much if I'm blowing up all their corspes first, which has the added side effect of a guaranteed +100 dmg to all surrounding foes.

Oh, and a quick note to those who suggest Death Magic Necros are useless in later levels... many of the "Undead" still make corpses, like Clerics, Warlocks, Ghouls, etc. It's only the non-fleshy undead that don't. Where do you think all of their high level enemy horrors and fiends come from? Just an fyi..

Saya · Jul 01, 2005, 08:36 PM // 20:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by Warlawk

hte point i was trying to make is that you dont want 2 or 3 minnions running around aggroing.... you want 10+ of the damn things running around soaking up half the monsters that attack you. for really unpleasant encounters, its the difference between life and death.

Yeah,
I've been teaming with a minion necro in the Thunderhead Keep mission last night and he managed to maintain literally a dozen of minions, if not more.

So, it's definately possible, whereas it's just a personal preference of mine having switched from minion master to support only.
Now, if it only wasn't so hard to get on a team as a necro...

Enigmatics · Jul 01, 2005, 08:41 PM // 20:41

Minions are mindless, not intelligent AI. Everything they do doesn't vary whatsoever; if you attack, so will they, if you target something or change, they will too. They act like henchmen. Apart from that, they're still a huge mob of personal tanks.

Jul 01, 2005, 09:50 AM // 09:50	#1
Multifaros Academy Page Join Date: May 2005	Death Magic isnt that good? I've been playing with my N/E for a while now, lvl 10 this far. I have full Blood Magic, and tried som death magic too. I realised that Death Magic isnt very good, specally not in PvP, when you havent got many corpses. So should i carry on with blood magic? I put some on soul reaping and curses too, i like them. Thats basicly what i put my stats on, nothing on E stuff this far. Btw, N/E is nice.

Jul 01, 2005, 06:51 PM // 18:51	#15
Ensign Just Plain Fluffy Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Berkeley, CA Guild: Idiot Savants	A Death Necro is about as neccessary in a tombs group as your 3 monks. Either you run Putrid Explosion and fight over the corpses, or you will lose to it. Peace, -CxE __________________ Don't argue with idiots. They bring you to their level and beat you with experience.

Jul 01, 2005, 10:06 AM // 10:06	#2
Warlawk Frost Gate Guardian Join Date: Jun 2005 Profession: W/Mo	at higher levels, once the going starts to get tough.... a good blood necro is invaluable. having a small horde of minions to keep the mobs busy while your group rips them apart makes things SOOOOOOOO much easier. i cant comment on pvp, as i havent played one, only played alongside one. an area which is ridiculously hard without a minion necro, becomes easy with one.

Jul 01, 2005, 10:12 AM // 10:12	#3
Laizness Ascalonian Squire Join Date: Jun 2005 Profession: Me/N	Death necros can be nice in pvp, putrid explosion is a devastating skill as well as death nova. Minions can be helpful although i personally don't believe in them for pvp.

Jul 01, 2005, 10:17 AM // 10:17	#5
kyrell Ascalonian Squire Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Germany Profession: N/E	I am an N/E but Blood and Fire and both max and some runes and I use well of blood so the corpse just needed for something. And well of power is better but needs longer casting time and longer recharge . p/s: Anyone knows when I type wop in GW they showed ---

Jul 01, 2005, 10:19 AM // 10:19	#6
silvertemplar Lion's Arch Merchant Join Date: May 2005 Profession: Me/N	In PvE it is great under the right conditions. But generally you can not fully go Death Magic due to the conditional corpse required AND the fact that you are fighting alot of undead which not only do not leave corpses but are also immune to disease/poison etc [also mostly under death magic]. I have found if i DO have a corpse very few spells beats what Death Magic can pull off. Even Soul Feast [self healing] is one heck of a scary healing spell. So i wouldn't underestimate it, i usually check the general area + mobs i will fight and then put more or less attribs in my Death Magic depending on whether i will get corpses. As for curses, in PvP i think there's some great stuff, but in PvE i foud [espcially later on] mobs just remove them over and over nullifying the whole point of it.

Jul 01, 2005, 02:26 PM // 14:26	#7
Enigmatics Jungle Guide Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Tenafly, NJ Guild: Defenders of Rillanon Profession: W/Mo	Invaluable means valuable... As for devoted minion masters, either go ranger or monk secondaries. Ranger for the pet that you can have die and grant you corpses, monk so you can heal your minions. That way you can go pure death magic. Of course only the NON premade minion masters don't suck; they happen to be minor gods in pve, and can do well in pvp, providing you have a monk with healing seed.

Jul 01, 2005, 04:28 PM // 16:28	#8
Cap'n Hoek Frost Gate Guardian Join Date: May 2005 Location: Sunny California Guild: Ancient Avatars	Don't neglect curses, I find them very useful when I've stacked them up on my foes.

Jul 01, 2005, 04:34 PM // 16:34	#10
Tony Blair Frost Gate Guardian Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: VA	A death necro can be very very good in PvP. Putrid Explosion, Rotting Flesh, Tainted Flesh..

Jul 01, 2005, 05:05 PM // 17:05	#11
Saya Academy Page Join Date: Apr 2005	I have a death necro with most points in death and some in blood, and it's a hell lot of fun playing that one in PvE. If there's a monk in the team, then I usually stick close to that one and use Blood Ritual on him 24/7, so that (s)he doesn't run out of energy. It's interesting that teams often compliment the monk for his excellent healing skills then On the Death Magic side, I usually equip the putrid explosion & rotting flesh. Putrid explosion can be a life saver, when the warrior/team gets swarmed by too many mobs, then all you need to do is wait for the first corpse to drop and then it's usually putrid spamming till the last one hits the ground. Rotting flesh is neat for any kind of regen monster or for groups that are out of reach, so that you can drain them slowly but to the end. I don't use minion skills anymore, since the ascension, as they are hard to control and can aggro the wrong group at the wrong time.

Jul 01, 2005, 05:47 PM // 17:47	#13
Plommon Lion's Arch Merchant Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Sweden Guild: Shiverpeaks Wolves Profession: N/Mo	Well the best necro id say would be blood. especially when you have both life siphon and life transfer in your rack. Life siphon gives enemy health degeneration of 3 and myself heaqlth regeneration of 3 for 24 seconds, if you then add life transfer it gives enemy 8 degeneration and yourself 8 regenaration for 12 seconds. they stack and give you maximum regeneration at all times These skills recharge pretty quickly so when youve put them on one guy you move on to the next. After that you just start pounding with life stealing attacks like vampiric gaze- and touch and the enemy will be dead before they can say OMG while you still have 100% hp! P.S Stats on the skills are when you have 16 points bloodmagic

Jul 01, 2005, 06:00 PM // 18:00	#14
Enigmatics Jungle Guide Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Tenafly, NJ Guild: Defenders of Rillanon Profession: W/Mo	I know the textbook definition of invaluable, but I disagree that such a build is actually invaluable persei. They're useful though, no doubt. I've had numerous life transfers put on me... I use remove hex and laugh. Keeping in mind that there are always counters for hexes and general skills, minion masters have hard times being countered, unless you disrupt their summoning.

Jul 01, 2005, 06:57 PM // 18:57	#16
Enigmatics Jungle Guide Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Tenafly, NJ Guild: Defenders of Rillanon Profession: W/Mo	Can't vouch for minion masters' success in arenas though.

Jul 01, 2005, 08:41 PM // 20:41	#20
Enigmatics Jungle Guide Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Tenafly, NJ Guild: Defenders of Rillanon Profession: W/Mo	Minions are mindless, not intelligent AI. Everything they do doesn't vary whatsoever; if you attack, so will they, if you target something or change, they will too. They act like henchmen. Apart from that, they're still a huge mob of personal tanks.